I don't think Billy Wagner or Todd Helton get enough love. I think Wagner has the best SO per 9 average in history and Helton had a lifetime average of .316 (30 points higher than Ortiz BTW) over a 17 year career. The argument that he played in Denver the whole time doesn't work for me either, he hit everywhere. Pretty decent fielder too. Ortiz is just a media darling, not a 1sr ballot HOFer in my opinion.
Thanks Craig, agreed. Ortiz is a nice guy and well liked. Not a Hall of Famer in my opinion and the "first ballot" is just ridiculous. Wagner has some impressive stats. Helton had the Colorado factor. Not convinced on either one but wouldn't be terribly upset if they eventually make it.
Agreed George, thanks for commenting. Ortiz put up numbers, but was a straight DH, and at one point used PEDs. Putting him in has future voting on a slippery slope.
I e changed my mind on the steroid era; I feel the best players of the era should be in.
How do you tell the story of the game without them?
How do you determine who was on PED’s and who wasn’t? Didn’t Ortiz actually fail a test? An unofficial test, but one nonetheless. Bonds did not fail a test.
There are already obvious PED users in, again, where/how do you draw the line and who draws it? Based on what?
I’m currently against Rose being in, but I’m beginning to rethink that one too.
Thanks Brent. I understand your position, I just feel we need to embrace players that put up the amazing numbers and exhibit integrity and character as the rules dictate. The HoF celebrates the "accomplishments" of the tainted players, so the history is intact. But in my humble opinion, they shouldn't be enshrined and receive the plaque. Unfortunately, the BBWAA opened up the "can of worms" by putting Ortiz in.
Rose is a whole other story. He knew the rule against betting and broke it; it's posted in every clubhouse. He lied about it, accepted the penalty and only came clean in his book to make money. He has the hit record and it's noted in the Hall, but he should never be enshrined. Just a slimy individual. Again, just my opinion.
It’s definitely controversial, all we can express is our opinion. My issue is that there are already steroid users in, Piazza, Ivan Rodriquez, Biggio, and others I’m not remembering, and ultimately, if they didn’t fail a test, how do we really know?
I completely agree on Rose, he has handled it all so poorly since, maybe enshrine him only after he has passed? He’s been an easy one to dislike, as I said, I’m re-evaluating my position on Rose, and I’m totally not a fan of his antics
You’re the expert and I’m learning so much🤗. Thank you 🙏
Thanks Mary Kay! Learning about baseball is a constant and it's fun besides.
I don't think Billy Wagner or Todd Helton get enough love. I think Wagner has the best SO per 9 average in history and Helton had a lifetime average of .316 (30 points higher than Ortiz BTW) over a 17 year career. The argument that he played in Denver the whole time doesn't work for me either, he hit everywhere. Pretty decent fielder too. Ortiz is just a media darling, not a 1sr ballot HOFer in my opinion.
Thanks Craig, agreed. Ortiz is a nice guy and well liked. Not a Hall of Famer in my opinion and the "first ballot" is just ridiculous. Wagner has some impressive stats. Helton had the Colorado factor. Not convinced on either one but wouldn't be terribly upset if they eventually make it.
I really didn’t think anyone should have gone this year. My opinion on Ortiz is good DH, but no defense and not outstanding numbers on offense.
Agreed George, thanks for commenting. Ortiz put up numbers, but was a straight DH, and at one point used PEDs. Putting him in has future voting on a slippery slope.
I e changed my mind on the steroid era; I feel the best players of the era should be in.
How do you tell the story of the game without them?
How do you determine who was on PED’s and who wasn’t? Didn’t Ortiz actually fail a test? An unofficial test, but one nonetheless. Bonds did not fail a test.
There are already obvious PED users in, again, where/how do you draw the line and who draws it? Based on what?
I’m currently against Rose being in, but I’m beginning to rethink that one too.
Thanks Brent. I understand your position, I just feel we need to embrace players that put up the amazing numbers and exhibit integrity and character as the rules dictate. The HoF celebrates the "accomplishments" of the tainted players, so the history is intact. But in my humble opinion, they shouldn't be enshrined and receive the plaque. Unfortunately, the BBWAA opened up the "can of worms" by putting Ortiz in.
Rose is a whole other story. He knew the rule against betting and broke it; it's posted in every clubhouse. He lied about it, accepted the penalty and only came clean in his book to make money. He has the hit record and it's noted in the Hall, but he should never be enshrined. Just a slimy individual. Again, just my opinion.
It’s definitely controversial, all we can express is our opinion. My issue is that there are already steroid users in, Piazza, Ivan Rodriquez, Biggio, and others I’m not remembering, and ultimately, if they didn’t fail a test, how do we really know?
I completely agree on Rose, he has handled it all so poorly since, maybe enshrine him only after he has passed? He’s been an easy one to dislike, as I said, I’m re-evaluating my position on Rose, and I’m totally not a fan of his antics
Thanks! The vets are deserving, wish Dick Allen was among them. Ortiz, not so much. Terrible path.